Why I'd Rather Pay For DLC - A TF1/TF2 Case Study

Discussion in 'General Titanfall discussion' started by ensc, Dec 16, 2016.

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  1. ensc

    ensc Generation 7
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    #1 ensc, Dec 16, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2016
    I would just like to make the case on why I would much rather pay for DLC content than get it for "free". To do this, I'm going to look at TF1 first, then where we are at with TF2 and then make some comparisons.

    TF1:
    3/15/14 - Release - $59.99 - 15 Large Maps
    3/21/14 - Update #1 - Balancing adjustments and general changes, Bug Fixes
    4/10/14 - Update #2 - Game Balance Changes, Bug Fixes
    ----- Had 2 Updates In Less Time Than TF2's First -----
    5/12/14 - Update #3 - Game Balance Changes, Bug Fixes
    5/15/14 - DLC1 (Expedition) - $9.99 - 3 new Large Maps
    6/24/14 - Update #4 - Marked For Death, Some New Features, Bug Fixes
    7/29/14 - Update #5 - Daily Challenges, Some New Features, Bug Fixes
    8/1/14 - DLC2 (Frontier's Edge) - $9.99 - 3 new Large Maps
    ----- Total Spent So Far: $79.97 (same as TF2 release) -----
    8/28/14 - Update #6 - Pilot Skirmish, Improvements and Optimizations, Gameplay Changes, Bug Fixes
    9/25/14 - Update #7/DLC3 (IMC Rising) - $9.99 - 3 new Large Maps, Bug Fix
    10/22/14 - Update #8 - Frontier Defense, Deadly Ground, Marked For Death Pro, Rank Chip, Some New Features, Improvements and Optimizations, Gameplay Changes, Bug Fixes

    NOTE: For all details of the TF1 updates see here:
    http://www.ign.com/wikis/titanfall/Patches_and_Updates

    TF2:
    10/28/16 - Release - $79.99 (because most probably bought the Deluxe, I would have but it was not available on PC) - 9 Small Choke-Pointed Maps
    11/30/16 - DLC1 - "free" - 1 "new" old map, 1 "new" mode which was really just a variety lobby of that 1 "new" old map, a cosmetic store

    Established Benchmark (from 3 TF1 DLCs):
    -if it does not contain at least 3 "brand new" maps, then it does not qualify as a DLC, but can only be considered an Update.

    Comparisons:
    -By the time you paid the same money in TF1 as TF2 cost at release, you had 21 large maps, where TF2 only had 9 small choke-pointed maps
    -Since TF2's DLC1 only contained an existing map, a variety mode of that existing map and a cosmetic store which was more for Respawn's benefit than the players, because probably at least half of the players could care less about camos and skins, this "DLC" should really only be considered equal to a TF1 "Update", especially since TF1's Update #8 contained far more NEW content than this.
    -Since we have just established that TF2's "DLC1" is actually TF2's "Update #1", then we can see that in the amount of time it took for TF2 to put out it's first Update, TF1 had already put out 2 Updates.

    Going Forward:
    -I've heard they plan on releasing a "surprise" DLC2 before the end of the year. If this would contain enough content to be classified as a DLC (which I highly doubt), then it would actually only be DLC1. Even if it does qualify as a DLC and comes out around 12/30/16, TF1 had put out 3 Updates and a DLC in that amount of time, where TF2 will have only put out 1 Update and a DLC (or possibly even just 2 Updates).
    -I've heard they plan on going on vacation after that. Yeah, you know, because all of this doing nothing really tires you out.

    My Opinions:
    -It just feels like there was much more of a sense of urgency to make players happy in TF1 than there is in TF2.
    -From reading interviews of EA reps and Vince Zampella (Respawn's CEO), it just feels like Vince is not happy with them and he pretty much just wants to take his ball and go home.
    -If that is true, I believe that is why their main focus in TF2's Update #1 was to install the cosmetic store, because they just want to suck as much money as they can out of this game and they know they are not getting paid for any DLCs.
    -If that is true, then I believe 50% to 75% of their efforts in future Updates/DLCs is going to be to create more cosmetics to suck more money out of the game.
    -If that is true, then the true content, functionality and new features will suffer due to a lack of attention.
    -If that is true, then essentially what is happening is Vince Zampella's grudge against EA and his focus on sucking as much money as he can out of the cosmetic store is going to have the side effect of punishing the players who truly love the game and deserve to be treated as they were in TF1.
    -I would also argue that by them knowing they were never going to receive any money after the game launched, it actually enabled them to be lazier in the actual release of the game, because there was no incentive for them to keep people around to buy future DLCs.
    -I feel like some have been lenient with Respawn, defending Respawn and even praising Respawn when in my opinion none of it is warranted. We pay them a lot of hard earned money for a game and part of what we are paying for is the expectation that the game will be improved and receive as much attention as the behavior exhibited in the first version of the game. This game started way behind (9 small maps instead of 15 large maps) and is barely receiving attention (1 new "old" map).

    Summary:
    -If some or all of my opinions are true, or even if they are not, but there is a lack of urgency and attention and a minimal amount of additional content put out compared to TF1, then I would much rather pay for DLC than to end up with what we are getting (or not getting) for "free" now. If they know you are going to have to pay for it, then they have to make it worth the money to you. Conversely, if they know they are not getting any money from you, then they know you will just have to be happy with whatever the hell they feel like giving you (or not giving you). I, personally, would much rather pay for DLCs and get some really good new content rather then getting essentially nothing for "free".

    Bottom Line:
    I'd much rather pay them and force them to have to work for it than give them a free pass to do little or nothing.
     
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  2. Ik0n88x

    Ik0n88x Generation 7
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    #2 Ik0n88x, Dec 16, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2016
    I'm gonna have to respond to this post...

    Titanfall 1 was actually released on March 11th 2014... and the 14th in the UK, so technically it was 10 days before the first update.

    Small patch was actually released day of release of Titanfall 2 to adjust Attrition score and player count visuals.
    There was a server update on 10/29/16 with bug fixes and gameplay adjustments.
    There was then a PC patch on 11/1/16 with bug fixes.
    There was then another server update 11/4/16 with general changes and bug fixes.

    ---So technically had 4 updates in about the first week of release---

    Also, you can't just use standard edition numbers for Titanfall 1 and then Deluxe edition numbers for Titanfall 2, you got additional content for buying Deluxe (even if it's stuff you don't care about). You're also comparing 7 months of a game to not even 2 months of a game. So for let's use equivalent numbers...

    $59.99 + tax = $64.79 for Titanfall 1
    $59.99 + tax = $64.79 for Titanfall 2

    For fairness, let's just compare the first two months and what we got.

    Titanfall 1 (15 maps, 23 weapons *including Titan*, no customization, 6 game modes, half-ass campaign)
    Titanfall 2 (9 maps, 34 weapons *including Titan*, character, gun, titan customization, 13 game modes, fully fleshed out campaign)

    Overall, I think Titanfall 2 delivered more content on launch. Yes Titanfall 1 had more and better maps, but that's just subjective and doesn't mean anything when it comes to getting more bang for your buck.

    So Titanfall 2 has had 5 updates in less than two months if we don't call that Angel City update a DLC (even though it added a new weapon (which seems to be left out of your post), new executions, new Titan models, new Titan kits and new camos) and Titanfall 1 had 2 updates and 1 DLC (but that one DLC raised the $ up to $74.79).

    You also have to take into account that Titanfall 1 released in March heading into summer time, Titanfall 2 release in October heading into the Holiday season. I'm assuming that a lot of these employees at Respawn want to be around their families for the holidays and I can't blame them for that. It's far too early to tell how dedicated Respawn is to this game, it hasn't even been 2 months yet, let's pump the brakes a bit and see what the schedule is for the new year. Not to mention that you're going to get EVERYTHING they release as DLC for free. So if they end up releasing 14 more maps over the course of it's lifetime, you'd be getting the same amount of maps in TF2 that you got it TF1 for $60 instead of $90.

    Don't take this the wrong way though, I'm a massive Titanfall 1 fan and I still even play it to this day.
     
  3. ensc

    ensc Generation 7
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    #3 ensc, Dec 16, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2016
    I'm glad this is you Ik0n, because I do know you are a massive Titanfall 1 fan as well, so I can accept and respect your arguments a lot more than someone who was just simply a TF2 fan boy. You have gone out of your way to prove that you did really love TF1. I don't understand how someone who loved TF1 could possibly think TF2 is good at all, but you do, so whatever. We've agreed to disagree about that.

    Anyway, since it is you, I really try to take an extra moment and try to truly understand where you are coming from. I would like to lay out some arguments, but I want to start by trying to make sure I stick to why I started this thread, which was,
    "Why I'd Rather Pay For DLC - A TF1/TF2 Case Study". I also want to start by saying that with regard to TF2, I hope I am completely wrong about this. If they release 14 more maps over it's lifetime, that would be awesome. However, I can only go by what it feels like, and to me, it feels like that is never going to happen.

    Please allow me to try to better define why I started this thread, because I think "having paid DLC content" vs. "having free DLC content" affects the game manufacturer psychologically in 2 areas (the actual release, and the DLC content). Plus, with regard to the actual release, you have to also look at what was removed. Oh, and by the way, I accept your argument about using the Standard TF2 release against the TF1 release, so let's go with that. And you know what, let's even classify the Angel City release as a DLC pack.

    Having Paid DLC Content:
    The Actual Release:
    If a developer knows they are going to be getting paid down the road for DLC content, then they have more incentive to create a better game that is going to keep you around 4 months or 6 months down the road if they are still releasing new content. They are more likely to create something with a lot of really good content right out of the gate. They are less likely to be self indulgent if it could hurt the popularity of the game.
    Titanfall 1 - $59.99 - (15 large maps, 23 weapons *including Titan*, no customization, 6 game modes, half-ass campaign)
    DLC Content:
    If a developer knows they have to depend on you paying for a DLC pack, then they know they have to put enough good content in it to make it worth your while to pay your hard earned money for it.
    DLC1 (Expedition) - $9.99 - 3 new Large Maps
    *** YOU HAD 18 MAPS AND NEVER SAW THE SAME ONE TWICE IN A ROW.

    Having Free DLC Content:
    The Actual Release:
    If a developer knows that once you've paid for the initial release, they never have to depend on you for anything else, they are more free to limit the content in the initial release. They are also more free to disregard what the fans of the game want and just do whatever the hell they feel like, because they're going to get their money no matter what and the consumers will have no recourse.
    Titanfall 2 - $59.99 - (9 small maps, 34 weapons *including Titan*, character, gun, titan customization, 13 game modes, fully fleshed out campaign)
    Removed: Titan Loadout Customization, Regen Challenges, Burn Cards, Black Market, Rank Chip, Frontier Defense, Multiplayer Campaign, Regenerating Shields On Titans, Rodeo Mechanic, Some Popular Weapons Were Weakened Or Removed, The Ability To Carry A Sidearm And Anti-Titan Weapon, Continuity Between Players And Chat Between Games
    DLC Content:

    If a developer knows they are not going to get a dime from you for a DLC pack, they don't have to spend even one second thinking or caring about what you want. They've already gotten their money. Even worse, oh, but hey, they can add a cosmetic store to suck extra money out of the game and now spend less energy on actual content and more energy on new cosmetics.
    DLC1 (Angel City) - Free - 1 new "old" large map
    *** YOU HAVE 10 MAPS AND CAN SEE THE SAME MAP 3, 4 OR 5 TIMES IN A ROW

    I think the focus needs to be on maps, because this determines the size of our playground. Therefore, with having no incentive to keep players around to buy future DLC packs, TF2 launched with 60% of the maps that TF1 did and they were smaller. Again, with no incentive to have people buy the first DLC, TF2 released it's DLC1 with 33% of the maps that TF1 did. Not to mention, they didn't even have to create it, but actually stole it from TF1. This is why I said, "I hope I am completely wrong about this. If they release 14 more maps over it's lifetime, that would be awesome. However, I can only go by what it feels like, and to me, it feels like that is never going to happen."

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    THAT'S THE END OF WHAT APPLIES TO THIS THREAD,

    BUT I DID WANT TO PRESENT SOME OTHER
    ARGUMENTS, BUT I DON'T WANT TO GET THIS
    THREAD OFF COURSE.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    with regard to the number of weapons - I can only carry one primary at a time, so all I care about is that the one I like is available and they actually removed 1 I liked and weakened the other one I really liked.

    with regard to having more game modes - this just spreads players out and creates more empty game modes

    with regard to anything they might have added - it is far outweighed by what I listed next to "Removed" above.

    with regard to TF1 having a "half-ass campaign" as you put it compared to TF2 having a "fully fleshed out campaign" as you put it. Let me just put it this way, I played the TF2 campaign all the way through ONCE. I don't really have plans to ever do it again. I've played the TF1 campaign all the way through well over 500 times and I plan on doing it again today. So if the TF1 campaign is "half-ass", then I will take that over anything TF2 gave me every day and twice on Sunday.
     
  4. Ik0n88x

    Ik0n88x Generation 7
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    Again, this is all subjective. Personal perspectives on whether you love or hate the maps doesn't matter so bolding the "large" part doesn't really matter. Like I said, I also like Titanfall 1 map design much better don't get me wrong there. I also want to make it clear that I don't mind paying for DLC, I never have... I'm part of the camp that gets a lot of hate for that but when a company is adding more content to their game that wasn't originally there, I have no problem paying some money for it. That creates a problem though because companies take advantage and have a ton of stuff created ahead of time and are just time-locking their releases just so they can cash in.


    Obviously you're gonna play on the same maps more frequently when you have less maps, can't say I've ever played a match even 3 times in a row but I have gotten the same map twice a couple of times. I just disagree with you about this. I think when you have something like a season pass, there is a bunch of content created beforehand that the company is just time-released. I think when a company is creating free content, there is a lot more passion and care going into those maps. Adding more cosmetic things doesn't affect you and I doubt it takes that much energy away from any other DLC with how many people Respawn employ at this point. Also, you have to remember there are a LOT of people who actually like all that cosmetic stuff.. so you can't just look at it from your perspective. There is absolutely zero chance for Respawn to please every single person.

    We'll see what happens with regards to how much content they release over the following year, can't really speculate until we see what happens. As far as the campaign goes, really? You only play the campaign in Titanfall 1 that much because it's a MP mode... don't tell me it's for the story that you can barely even hear if you're actually paying attention to playing the game (or some people play because they like to beat up on easier enemies). The campaign in Titanfall 2 is far superior in every single way and I've beaten it on every mode on both consoles and will be doing so on PC once I get it as well.
     
  5. SgtPain

    SgtPain Generation 4

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    I'd be happy to pay for DLC like the Titan Primes, weapons, skins, boosts etc because they don't affect the playerbase.

    The trouble with maps for DLC is that they split the player base.
     
  6. ensc

    ensc Generation 7
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    With all the supplement solicitation taking up the top slots as well as the focus shifting to looking forward to TF3 now, just wanted to revive some potentially applicable threads that might warrant more discussion at this time.

    I still would rather pay for DLC to insure a quality release and quality DLC packages.
     
  7. Kingkat54

    Kingkat54 Generation 7
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    I too would rather pay for DLC, if it enhances the game and adds maps, weapons, new characters, etc. However, I never thought that TF2 should have been a stand alone game. They should have copied (the original)Ghost Recon, and simply made "add-ons" that played across ALL games. Access to weapons should NOT be made for simply playing the game, time, or the ability of the player. I never liked weapon level ups, and still do not. (at least BF1 you can buy your weapons..........didn't make me play better, just had more weapons) Because, as it is now, there is very few, if any, players playing TF!!!!!!! I stopped playing TF2 because it just wasn't the same as TF1. I miss TF1, and I doubt that TF3..........or whatever its called, will fill the empty void I have from TF1. Sorry for the rant, but lately, I have just not been excited to play any game. I was a good player in TF1. I miss TF1.
     
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  8. Ik0n88x

    Ik0n88x Generation 7
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    Please tell me you don't mean buy weapons with actually money. If it's an in-game currency, that's fine. If you're talking real money than that is exactly what is wrong with the gaming industry.
     
  9. ensc

    ensc Generation 7
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    I feel ya King. You and me both brother.
     
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  10. Kingkat54

    Kingkat54 Generation 7
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    In game currency. XP points, or whatever they are. BF1 game packages. They were packages that you used, and YES, paid money, albeit small amount, that gave more than just weapons it had other cosmetic features. You miss my point. I, as a gamer, simply do not possess either the "Uber Skill"....or the time to put into a game to achieve what many players get to in a very short time. I am not saying that skill as a player does not count for anything, but many gamers like myself simply want to play with EVERYTING available in the game from the moment I purchase the game. I liked how TF1 had weapons. All were available with some enhancements available as you gained XP. Which makes sense. I hope I have made myself clear.
     
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  11. rainman0211

    rainman0211 Generation 7
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  12. ensc

    ensc Generation 7
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    I agree with you King. I have absolutely no problem with allowing people to pay actual money to get things quicker than you normally have to earn in the game, because like you said, some people don't have the time or skill to be able to earn some things, but yet they would like to be able to enjoy them and I think they should be able to. I myself, actually do enjoy putting in the time to earn it within the game (if its a good game worth playing which is all that really matters to me) and it doesn't bother me a bit if someone else gets it sooner if they were willing to pay money, which could go towards future content that I will get to enjoy. To me, its actually win-win. I get to enjoy earning things and when I am done I will have some awesome new content to enjoy financed by them.
     
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  13. Ik0n88x

    Ik0n88x Generation 7
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    If I can still earn in it in the game, that's fine if you have it earlier. My problem is when you can buy a weapon and that's the only way to get that particular weapon.. that creates unnecessary balance issues.
     
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  14. rainman0211

    rainman0211 Generation 7
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    Exactamundo @Ik0n88x . I could care less who gets what when because I know I'll get it eventually.
     
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  15. ensc

    ensc Generation 7
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    Yeah, I would agree with you there Ik0n.
     
  16. Kingkat54

    Kingkat54 Generation 7
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    So
    I don't think that the only way to get a weapon is from buying................THAT would be bad.................but in MY personal experience...............a single weapon does NOT instantly make someone a better player! That is why I am against having to level up to gain weapons.
     
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  17. ensc

    ensc Generation 7
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    That's a good point King. I would agree with that.
     
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